Minutes

Minutes of the UKBA User Panel Meeting

Venue: British High Commission, Islamabad

Date: 21 June 2011

Agenda Item 1

Jo welcomed the members. All participants introduced themselves.           

 Agenda Item 2

Tier 4 update

Ian & Kevin updated on the Tier 4 applications

Current processing time for Tier 4 applications is 11 days

The office received massive surge in applications since 21st April rules changes.

Many applicants have been contacted through phone calls and invited for interviews in Islamabad to assess the English language.

Universities were contacted in the UK and invited to withdraw CAS if the applicant was unable to speak English.

Abidi Students who have the visas are looking for acceptance letter from another universities, since the ones they issued the visas with do not have the licence. Any advice on if they can travel on the visas or should they apply for a new one?

Ian They have to submit a fresh application. The students should apply in advance 90 days ahead of the start date.

Kevin Most applications are processed within 15 working days time. Some of the applications take more time than others. Such applications are individually checked and cannot be expedited. A few of those applications will miss the ECS time due to integrity and to protect our borders.

Nadia Most of the students are aware of 15 working days and mostly applies for visas at the last minute. Can the office send a clear message out?

Jo Our website advises the students to apply 90 days before the start date. All VAC offices have the updated information on the notice boards.

Agenda Item 3

British Council

The British Council is forming a new scheme for agents. The British Council name can be used by selected, reliable agents and will be monitored for integrity. This scheme will be launched from July 2011.

The final list of agents will be shown on the website and all complaints from the customers will be handled through the complaint inbox.

Jo UKBA plans to use the list of agents and invite those onto a Student Select Scheme. Something similar and functioning, the office has Business Select Scheme. The office will start inviting once the British Council finalised the agents list.

Abidi There is about 50 educational boards in Pakistan who issue certificates to students completing 10 years of studies. How can these be verified?

Keith The SSC certificates attested by IBCC can be identified as genuine. The certificates are attested at the back page of the certificate. The IBCC has 35 boards, the rest are not identified. The ones that are not identified are not given the points.

The office has good relationship with the IBCC for last four years and the documents are attested and back in the office in couple of days.

Abidi Besides the transcript, there is a certificate issued by the boards. The two documents differ from each other. I have forward the details including the rules and regulations regarding those documents to Ian.

Saeed The timing of issuance of certificates is different and sometimes the universities are asking for both transcript and certificates. Can written guidance be provided by UKBA?

Keith I will pass the message to Ian.

Agenda Item 4

Operational and Policy update

Currently visa applications are being considered within 15 days target.

Policy Consultation of employment related settlement, Tier 5 and overseas domestic worker was launched in July. The consultation will end in September.

The office will brief the media, MFA and the community.

The commercial partners are doing well. Recently, premium lounges have been launched in Mirpur and Karachi. All participants can help informing customers of this.

Agenda Item 5

RALON

·         Support to the visa section

·         Airline operations

·         Intelligence handling team for the visa section

·         Combating organised crimes

Agenda Item 6

Round table

Umer There is not enough communication between IOM and UKBA. The IOM is not informed of any policy changes.

Jo  Dr. Zelijko has been kept informed of any policy changes matters and has been in contact regularly. We will widen the distribution of announcements to IOM

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Jo briefed on operational update as remained sturdy since the last meeting.

There was a February visit from Damien Green and Baroness Warsi which generated significant positive media coverage about the UK visa service in Pakistan.

The work flow remained on targets since the last meeting and we have been achieving the required benchmarks. We have been short of staff recently but remain positive.

There will be changes to T4 applications and ECM Ian Walker will explain the future.

There were a few agenda items that had been raised and shall we start with Mr Akram

Akram – Recognition of divorces by ECOs according to the Pakistani law. If both parties are in the UK then the UK law will apply. But if the sponsor is in the UK and the applicant is in Pakistan than Pakistan divorce law should be implemented. The same if one has more than one wife, allowed under Islamic law but not accepted in the UK.

Katrina – Due to the settlement applications back in Pakistan, we issued specific guidance and training for ECOs. The guidance notes is the information we gathered from various sources including notes for Afghan nationals as well.

Akram – requested for a copy of the notes.

Jo –Guidance is available on websites.

Akram – Do you have list of trusted immigration advisers and agents in Pakistan such as agents who can assist the applicants before submitting the application?

Jo – It is difficult to get the correct use of agency and who used what agent as it is not declared by customers.  And we do not have the right as a UK based organisation to regulate the agents. You can speak with MFA and can ask for advice.

Hashim – The notice boards in the Gerry’s offices are populated with related information for applicants both in English and Urdu warning against use of agents. There is also information on websites.

Keith – When an agent is used for an application, the applicants are not aware of the proper procedures. We have the information that applicants were informed poorly mostly through single agents. The applicants had received bad advice. We had passed the information to FIA for such agents.

Akram – My question has been answered. The OIC is an independent body in the UK to check to monitor agents and would be good to have the same in Pakistan.

Jo –OIC would need permission from the Pakistan Government to set up in Pakistan. We would welcome OIC views on this.

Mr Abidi raised a few points included in the agenda items. One of them is related to IOM and this was due to the settlement intake rise in Oct/ Nov 2010. Although IOM was not informed of the change, they handled it well.

Abidi – The students had difficulty in getting appointment for the TB test. They were short in time due to the start date in UK. The IOM office was not answering the phone and once did, had delayed long as 10 weeks for the appointments. Ian Walker helped me with the student applications.

Students had problems with the IOM phone lines and were not able to contact the office. I wrote several letters to the IOM office and they eventually replied and informed that they had problems with their exchange.

There have been no recent complains regarding the IOM office.

Jo – You have raised another issue related to passports held in the Gerry’s office.

Abidi – Due to fog the flights were delayed, there were about 20 cases which were received after 3 days.

Hashim – This was the time when PIA was on the strike and fog was a hurdle as well. We had difficulty in receiving the applications. This was the reason for the delay.

Abidi – I was in touch with the Gerry’s/ Hashim who kindly arranged for quick return of the documents to the applicants.

Agenda item 3

Policy update related to PBS T4 applicants – Ian Walker

Ian provided an overview of the new T4 changes.

Jo – The new change to PBS T4 applications will be with parliament for approval hopefully next week.

Ian – This will be implemented in stages, making sure all are aware of the changes. We are not sure about any particular time or date for these changes to

be effective.

Abidi – If/ When implemented the website will be updated and you will inform us?

Ian – positive

Abidi – Will UK universities conduct interviews before the admissions to check on English proficiency for Pakistan students or the IELTS test would be sufficient? If students can have concession of no IELTS certificate and only interview is acceptable for the admission?

Ian – In last two months over 3,000 student applications were refused out of 5,500 applied for visas. The applications refused because of lack of or poor submission of documents. They have not met the UKBA standard for English language tests.

Abidi – By end of 2012 all institutions will be converted.

Ian – certain educational institutions will be asking for English tests.

Akram – Will there be any impact of cash flows on the universities?

Jo – The impact will not be on the public funded universities. The media coverage was good/ positive and received an excellent feedback from all over the world.

Jo – How soon the student can apply for their visas?

Ian – We have received over 10,000 student applications in last two months. The vast majority will get the visas on time. For summer rush, students can apply 3-4 months prior to the start date. Students with start date in Sept. can submit the application in May/ June and we will try to complete the visa process on time.

Abidi – If student for Sept. start date can apply in March would you hold the documents or can process the visa for travel date in summer?

Ian – We have to hold the documents if applied early and call the applicant to withdraw the application and to submit the application 3 months before the start date.

Agenda item 4

Katrina Ring gave an overview of the new Verification + work stream in Pakistan.

 I am the head of verification team in Islamabad. This is an important part of visa process and the impacts had been huge, since we started to implement various ways to standardize the process.

Team’s role is to detect false documents and support genuine travellers. We are working in collaboration with our stakeholders such as banks, IBCC, HEC and we need their help. Our work is evidence based verifications.

V+ initiative by London is to provide details for sponsors in the UK. Since the start of settlement applications in Islamabad, we are using information from other Government departments to conduct sponsor checks.  We have started with limited number of checks currently 50 allowed per week.

We are looking at the benefit claims to cross examine what sponsor had said and this is compared with the V+ results. We have detected numerous taxes/ benefit frauds, false tax documents submitted to support the applications. The results have been beneficial for UKBA and other government departments. The results were a support to the ECOs while making a decision.

Since the start of those checks we have seen increase in genuine documents submitted by the applicants. We would like to build stronger relationship with other government departments in the UK.

Jo – The impact is huge on all visa applications. It is very exciting stuff.

Akram – Are you aware of any specific cities or places in Pakistan, who are more involved in fraud cases?

Katrina – Risk profile is very evolving, RALON keeps track of the information. There is no specific place in Pakistan we can name, this can change every day.

Agenda item 4

Managing intake annually

Jo – We cannot control student applications as this is a seasonal, but would like ideas on how to flatten demand and avoid inconsistent peaks through the year.

Tedd – Difficult for us as applications are related to course dates which are planned.

Akram – I would suggest for applicants to submit the applications three months in advance. Most of the applicants are not aware that they can submit the applications in advance. We will contact the communities in the UK and inform about this.

Jo – Asked member for any additional questions or issues?

Akram – can UKBA provide a list of English language test providers in Pakistan?

Jo – There is a list on the Gerry’s website.

 Jo – thanked all participants for attending the meeting. The next User panel meeting will be held in June. The date and time will be announced and informed.

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Minutes of the Meeting with UKBA Abu Dhabi

on 4^th January 2011

and
Answers of Important Questions

for the benefit of APECOP Members

1. CAS details – Mostly a complaint is that ECOs ignore the “Comment Box”. In case of SCHOLARSHIPS; where do you suggest it should show on the CAS for ECO to read and make an easy decision?

CAS fields have been made flexible for Sponsors to use. We suggest that they clearly put the information in the following format.

Tuition Fees Payable =         £ 9500

Scholarship Given =              £ 2000

Advance Tuition Fee Paid =  £ 4000

Balance Fee Payable =          £ 3500

 We will therefore now look at the balance fees with reference to the bank statement provided by the student.

2. How should we treat Spouse status from 2011? Will a spouse have the same benefits as of previous visa rules?

Spouse cannot work under the new rules, most probably after January 2011. The changes are still being updated and the website should be consulted.

3. Are visa extension rules being changed especially for those who miss their intakes and have a shorter period to join their courses and would like to have an extension to complete their programme? Should they get an extension in the UK or should they reapply?

It is much easier and we suggest that the student reapplies at the issuing office. However, if he has been given a long duration visa he can do the same once he registers at the UK institution.

4. Misleading information is being received regarding changes in Bank Statement period required, i.e. current 28 days perhaps now 60 days? Any input.

 So far we are still working on the 28 days pattern. However, it may be extended to 60 or 90 days as in the case of visit visas and details will be given on website.

5. Can student show total required amount in different account 
1. Half in father & half in mother account
2. Half in self and half in parents account
3. Some of the amount in joint with parents and remaining in other account (like father or mother)

 Yes, the student can provide as many accounts as possible as long as they belong to the father & mother and meet the UKBA criteria of time periods and amounts covered.  

6. Can student show required amount in the shape of fixed deposits (like Saving Certificates, Term Deposits or Credit Lines)?

Yes, and this is acceptable. However, interest generated will not be accounted for in the favour of student’s availability of funds.

7. What should be the application time dates for September 2011. If students have all papers completed with a course starting in September, can they apply visa in May and can they be issued a visa valid to travel 30 days prior to their course start date? This would surely ease the pressure in peak months such as July, August. (We used to do this before the HUB and Spoke was launched.)

 The students are encouraged to apply as early as possible. However, the visa officer will issue visa 90 days prior to the start of the course limiting the student to travel within 30 days of the start of the course.

8. Can we help those students for a refund of tuition fee who received their visas (entry clearance) but their college later D-Listed/ Revoked before his/ her travelling to UK. (very very important)

Can they change their sponsor by filing an application in UK while they are in Pakistan and then travel to UK on the same visa? OR Can their fee be transferred to any other institution in UK?

Our advice is they should not travel. They should seek advice from their respective institution and make arrangements so that their Sponsors are fully aware that earlier the student was issued a CAS from a college which has been removed from the list.

9. Most universities including the Federal universities do not issue original degrees before a minimum of one year and a maximum of 2 to 3 years however an original transcript and a provisional certificate is issued. At times this is not acceptable and also has been stated on the website provisional certificates are not acceptable. What should the student do in this case? Can the student get the provisional attested by respective universities registrar and oath commissioner to be an authenticated document?

The UKBA will continue to depend on information provided on CAS. We will insist institutions to mention the basis of their acceptance whether using an original transcript or a provisional certificate with a clear identification as to which documents they have used for their decision.

10. Is IELTS going to be compulsory for Level 6 & 7 as well? Will Interviews or tests taken by the Sponsors stand valid / acceptable by UKBA against the English Proficiency? What other test are now acceptable to UKBA i.e. TOEFL, IELTS, PEARSON, ETC.

The Sponsors are free to make decisions on case-to-case basis. Mature students can be interviewed through Skype and Sponsors can provide confirmation of this test and if they are happy to accept the student on that basis, this is not a problem.